Curse

Does-it-Matter · Nov 02, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Gasmaskman,

I think the reference of "it's closer to PvP with hero's (than with) henchmen" refers to the fact that since a Hero character can have a different build (i.e. you can change it as much as you want), customizable armor and weapons, etc. it is a bit closer to playing with a human than an "always this build, always this mentality" Henchman (though one could argue the almost fanatical nature of some PvP players comes closer to henchman than humans...)

---

Personally here's my view.

I have a lot to do, I'm your average casual gamer with periodic spikes of addiction. Often enough I cram in some GW time amidst a busy work day. I may not have enough time to sit there and wait for a group to find the second (or third...) monk, just because they feel its necessary.
-Or that I might not get accepted because I'm not the right profession/build, because they believe the almight cookie-cutter is the word of law in GW.
-Or because I don't have enough Rank to get taken into your group, because no one will take me into a group because I don't have rank... because I can't get into a group... because I don't have rank... because I can't... See where this is going?

Sitting in a district and waiting for something to start is not my idea of fun. I might have 20 minutes to do a quick quest/mission between classes or before work or studying, or group projects, or drill, or dating, or whatever other thing that occupies my time.

Simply put, if I don't want to (or don't have the time to) wait I don't have to. I can start right away, and now I have even more control/variety within the game.

I could join a PvP guild, sure. They're always recruiting, but that would entail me leaving my guild, which I've got to say is my favorite one yet. Its a crazy bunch of people who have fun with PvE and the occasional PvP, why leave that?

When I have plenty of time, of course I like PuGs, or grouping with my roommates/guildies. The most a hero/hench can say to you is pre-programmed statements. You don't hear the laughter of your roommate who just aggro'd everything on the map because he tried answering a call from his girlfriend and playing at the same time. Or the group of guildies who continuously talk about random things.

For those who want to play with others, there will always be PuGs/Guilds. After all, look how many people here are voicing their opinion because they think that is at risk?

For those that don't want to aspire to sink to the newest FotM, or don't meet some (perhaps) idiotic requirement of a group, or simply don't have time, there will always be Heros/Hench.

Link4009 · Nov 02, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

A vast number of people have been using Henchmen for several purposes, quest, mission and otherwise, the fact that we have useful solo options doesn't mean we can't group, it just means we don't have to.

I haven't played with a single person since I started Nightfall, Admittedly, I don't care to either. But, since there is a 4 hero cap, having a second person with 3 heros in an 8 man party is a pretty good option.

The use of heros allows us to build an entire party with skills geared to compliment eachother. The only reason to party with other players is to gain even better companions, if players were good enough to outmatch a coordinated hero team, and in some cases I'm sure they are, than it is worth wile to have teammates, otherwise, heros are simply better.

Taking heros out of missions and PvP basicly takes them out of all significant aspects of the game, they didn't add such an effective tool just to be used a fraction of the time. And no matter how much you like to play with other people, many players who play particular classes have extremely difficult times putting together decent parties, you say having hero parties is boring, I say having no party is unaccpetable. The ability to put a party together without the dependancy of other players is a god sent, and however you feel about it isn't going to have it removed from the game, more players like it so much, that they will play non-stop since they don't have to wait around for nothing day after day.

Exactly, I've set a record (personal one) of 18 hours of playtime tonight because I didn't get bored of LFG TANK GLF MONK GLF MM crap. Iwas able to do whatever I wanted because I don't have to depend on boneheads who draw privates on the compass or tell me I suck because I'm not a tank, finally me and my friend can phone eachother get heroes set up and adventure with a co-ordinated team.

cataphract · Nov 02, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

I hate to say it, but I miss PvEing with PuGs. It added an interesting challenge and interaction to the game. I found myself giving Koss mending and Zhed firestorm yesterday just so I could re-live the old times.

As far as the /sign, /notsign is concerned - I really don't know. I liked to PUG even when they were idiots and a$$holes. Interacting with people should be one of the major points in an online game. But on the other hand, heroes enable me to play the way I like and set my own pace. On top of that, they spare me the bull**** of PUG idiots, even if the idiots are guildies.

I have successfully hero-henched 3 mission that our guild team was not able to complete because of resident idiots who have to have their way. Killing the Drought was too easy with a hero-hench team, they've killed it so fast I couldn't cap his elite.

freekedoutfish · Nov 02, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by AydenV2

In my opinion Guild Wars has some increadibly rude people to begin with, but there was always the chance to meet a nice helpful person. Where is that person now? Doing a mission with his heroes so he doesn't have to deal with players.

Em........ GOOD!

Whats the issue? If people want to play with humans they can, if not they have heroes and henches.

The only reason I opt for AI most of the time is because I explore as I go, and most people would winge at me for doing it.

I use humans when going for bonuses and master titles because you need intelligence.

Otherwise I cant be bothered with the arogance of humans at times.

Heroes are a god send.

Would you rather they removed Heroes and took away the best update in months.

Carth` · Nov 02, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

/signed

Also allow only 1 hero in your party in PvE, instead of 3. And when you change area, your heroes get kicked so you have to reform the party as if it was with henchmen.

I just hate seeing 20 people all with a number above their head, it means not a single one of them is playing with real people.

Btw, I find it funny that the tagline for Nightfall is "Never fight alone". I have only fought alone in Nightfall! Not played with another person even once!

bigwig · Nov 02, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Pugs are awful. If you want human interaction, join a guild.

AhuraMazda · Nov 02, 2006, 11:37 AM // 11:37

/Notsigned.

The problem isnt heros, its the terrible community and the lack of control and policing Anet does of the game.

Heros are a god send, but in the first few weeks after the release of nightfall, there an obvious drop in people LFG.

Simple answer is to wait untill the novelty wears off, and see if more people look to play the game with other people.

I mean they are basiclly customisable henchmen, and we have had henchmen since the day prophecies was released, so whats all the fuss about?

Shadowfrost · Nov 02, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by AhuraMazda

I mean they are basiclly customisable henchmen, and we have had henchmen since the day prophecies was released, so whats all the fuss about?

Exactly what I was thinking as I read this thread. I've played with multiple people since nightfall started but I still spent most of my time with heroes and henchies. Taking away the heroes will annoy me but I'll still just go round with henchies instead. And don't start saying we should take away henchies.

guinevere · Nov 02, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

/signed.

I agree wholeheartedly on the PvP issue.

I also agree that certain areas of PvE, such as the Underworld, Fissure of Woe and the Elite Missions should not allow heroes or henchmen. I would add the Tomb of Primevil Kings and other select "mini-mission" areas as well.

I disagree, though - Heroes/Henchmen SHOULD be allowed on quests and missions. That is the point of them - to round out a party that may be missing a player or two.

seems people dont get what PvP is about or could we call it PvH nowadays...
I rather have my friends and guildmates helping me out when needed. Heros are perfect answer for PvE missions and quests nobody wants to do with you. Some characters like healing monks, mesmers, curse necros and all them 'weird' professions werent getting into a team easy. Why? People never bothered to use them or they just cant figure out a way to play them good. For those who think that, will not allow sins and such into a party easy. I often heard after a mission good job... or you actualy stayed alive while the warriors died -.- and i was just playing my A/R....

Point is people didnt care for a monk or w/e until they found themselves with a lacking alesia and lina stuck in THK. 6/8 party LF 2 monks.... < I still log on and can count all the join me plx whispers and invites.

/signed for PvP <<< this is player vs player = human, not AI even though sometimes AI is better I rather have real players then a Koss or w/e trying to do a WT.

Ebony Shadowheart · Nov 02, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

If you have a problem with the idiots/noobs/8-y.o/whatever in the community, maybe it's not them who's the problem, but rather yourself, as you've made no attempt to change their ways for the better.

Oh I have no problem offering people advice IF they want it/ ask for it. But I'm not going to butt in and tell someone how they should be playing. How would I be any better than the other people I'm complaining about then? I don't mind helping people out if they are new and/or need a hand, but more often that not (now) I'm getting hollered at for 'sticking my nose into business that is not my own' when I offer help or advice. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" It's like the law that says if you save a persons life, but in the process that person breaks their ankle that person has the right to sue you for pain and suffering; it just doesn't pay to be a good semaritin (sp?) if you're just going to get bitched at for it.

Avatara · Nov 02, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

They make keep heroes in PvP... what kind of player are you if you can't deal with bots? PvE is a different story, it's cool that you don't have to pug anymore, but ones in a while a I wanna play with human players. Right now however it's impossible to get into a group.

Carth` · Nov 02, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwig

Pugs are awful. If you want human interaction, join a guild.

I'm in a guild, I'm in a big guild. And every single person in my guild, and all the guilds of my alliance, is playing with their heroes. I used to see requests for help all the time, but since NF came out, I haven't seen one. Well actually, I did see one. Someone asked for help with Nahpui Quarter, poor guy must not have had NF so he didn't have heroes to be his friends.

Treg Q · Nov 02, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

I dont like it, there is no more teamspirit and challenges with real ppl.

Hellcaller · Nov 02, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

heroes are just amazing, and they should leave it the way it is now, even with the pvp. its just.....perfect.

that smile on my face when i went to the Eternal Grove mission where i was stuck on for days with my assassin (just couldnt do it with hench XD...and yes, who on earth would want an assassin in his team?), and got the Masters Reward in the end with my heroes. and thats just one of the many examples.

i doubt i will use human players again (lol, not that i had that much human groups, simply for the reason that i love mesmers and assassins a lot) since the heroes proved me time on time again, that they are AT LEAST just as good as humans(though i find my heroes to be way BETTER then humans) the hero-system must be one the best things ever.

Rera · Nov 02, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

The OP (and many others here) are confusing the cause with the effect. GW never had much community to begin with. The good players almost never pugged even before Nightfall, because they could beat every area in the game with henchmen. Adding heroes doesn't really change that. The thing you have to look at is *why* good players would do this, and then you'll see where the actual problem is.

The fact is that most GW players are terrible in some way or another. Most people are just flat-out incompetent, and the worst ones are so concerned with their egos that they are absolutely unwilling to take advice from better players. Other players are griefers (or at least, have very bad connections), and will intentionally do things to screw up their team, for whatever perverted sense of satisfaction this gives them. Still others are immature assholes that spam team chat with useless crap, talk smack, brag about their meager accomplishments, and just won't stfu in general.

Given all of this, there is no reason for any decent player to find a group of other players. Henchmen and Heroes are NOT THE PROBLEM, they are the RESULT OF THE PROBLEM. If the GW community had better players and better people, henchmen or heroes would be completely unnecessary. But that's not the case.

Seriously, sit down and think about it.

glountz · Nov 02, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

/unsigned

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

GW never had much community to begin with. The good players almost never pugged even before Nightfall, because they could beat every area in the game with henchmen.

I have to put emphasis on this.

Since 6 months, I have never pugged. I use henchies (and was able easily to "master" half the factions missions only with them) or guildies/GW friends (I've met while PvPing).
I don't consider myself as a "good player" unlike what's said in the quote.
But, sometimes, you just don't have time to loose with potential leeroys. Seriously.

I have a little skill, but I know some people with a lot more skill than me. And I've never seen them PUGging, too.

Loviatar · Nov 02, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

ANNOUNCEMENT FOR THE NEW PLAYERS YELLING HEROS ARE WRECKING THE MULTIPLATER COMMUNITY

TWO (2) MONTHS AFTER GW FIRST WENT LIVE THERE WERE ALREADY COMPLAINT THREADS ALL OVER THAT THEY WOULD RATHER HENCH THAN DEAL WITH THE JERKS.

SMARTER HEROS ARE ANETS ANSWER TO THE JERK / NOBODY ON PROBLEM.

GO ANET

the problem is not heros wrecking the community but the community being for a lot of it social dregs to begin with

BahamutKaiser · Nov 03, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

LoL, there wasn't any team spirit to begin with, the only spirit there was was suck up to the monk and necromancer so they stay. For anyone playing Elementist or Assassin, sometimes even mesmer, there is no dilusion of team spirit, people arn't in it to help out people they don't know, they are in it for themselves.

I have played games with nothing but team spirit, FFXI was one of them. And the reason teamspirit was so strong was because of a mutual appreciation for the final fantasy legacy, and a complete and utter lack of dynamic and enjoyable gameplay.

Now people will only play with other people if they want to, and if you want to than you can find someone else who wants to and do it. If you can't find anyone who wants to play with people instead of henchmen, than it is an extremely obvious sign that people perfer to play with heros who will, even with their lesser AI, accomplish far more with their coordinated skills and abilities and balanced team composition.

The fact that you, if you actually tried to find a PUG, cannot find players to join you in missions is overwhelming proof that the majority of players enjoy it, so trying to remove an advantage because you don't like it really isn't going to register on the poles.

Now I can sympathize a little with keeping heros out of most PvP, there are some significant advantages henchmen can excersize over players, particularly the precognitive interrupting skills. But heros lack the ability to select targets intellegently, and many builds which require an element of seperation can fail misserably with Heros. So I think it can be very fair. Try using some anti spam skills, or punishment skills, it may be very hard for Heros to realize they are defeating themselves with SS and Empathy, or SoJ.

My final suggestion is that if there are other players who sympathize with the OP, and are interested in playing with other players, than post new guild and an invitation right here and get together and play, if your all so interested in playing with other people, than youv'e found your match, and you can reach eachother right here.

NinjaKai · Nov 03, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

I've found myself henching a lot lately with nightfall. Though I have had some PUGs. Luckily my ratio of good to bad pugs is about 1 bad pug for every 10 i'm in. But generally I only rely on PUGs when my friends can't spare the time.

Jesse · Nov 03, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

/not signed

Why would we want to put up with people if we dont want to . Some people in this game are rediculous little boys that comlpain about everything and if you want you can stilll get a party if ..say...your in a guild or have friends mabey.